E36 M3 Evo Rally car

[Sunbmw]

It seems I may have been a little hasty................

Spoke to Will at Geoff Steel racing today, probably wish I hadn't really, he reckons that a decent 280ish bhp motor (will have to be 2.5 for that realistically for a rally car) will be £8k upwards , he says that while the fella with the engine mentioned earlier may be a bit off the mark with his power figures (350bhp not poss on that spec + wet sump), he does say he isn't over priced by too much. Balls.

Still not given up yet but with the house project starting to take shape, nothing is going to get done in a hurry anyways, but trouble is it is knowing away in my mind now..............watch this space.........again .

[is-si]

Looking at my catalogues, the spec of the engine you mentioned is very high - beyond Group A, its a BMW Motorsport bottom end - not a normal 2.5 crank, the head will be a group A 29.5mm port or a DTM 30.5mm port, Cams are BMW motorsport, valve train will be motorsport too, and the Slide throttle 8 injector set-up was intended for DTM cars.
BMW motorsport had standard engine designs, rally engines used different cams with `Rallye` throttle bodies based on the standard ones.
It all sounds like engine porn but i'd prefer a lesser spec engine that would do more miles between overhauls

[Sunbmw]

Looking at my catalogues, the spec of the engine you mentioned is very high - beyond Group A, its a BMW Motorsport bottom end - not a normal 2.5 crank, the head will be a group A 29.5mm port or a DTM 30.5mm port, Cams are BMW motorsport, valve train will be motorsport too, and the Slide throttle 8 injector set-up was intended for DTM cars.
BMW motorsport had standard engine designs, rally engines used different cams with `Rallye` throttle bodies based on the standard ones.
It all sounds like engine porn but i'd prefer a lesser spec engine that would do more miles between overhauls

To be honest, as mentioned before, that engine would have to have a de-tune before it would be any good for a rally car, but would be a cracking place to start................but do I want to buy an engine, then have to source cams and a dry sump kit and some management after spending £12.5K? Thought not.

It is looking very likely thath the S50 will be staying put, I will get the 'box installed, then do the RBMR, then assess what funds I may have, then maybe look at S14 power later in the year, when I have got my own garage etc.

Anyhow, that could all change in the next minute, who knows!!!!!

[rearwheelsteercompact]

Just a thought re the underfear, could the tightness/torque setting of the LSD be having an effect??

[Adam Gardner]

Stick with what you have got for now mate, you will always find events that dont suit the car fully. The other thing is look how long you can be away from rallying while undertaking a relatively 'simple' engine swap.
Think you need to get out and do some more miles before you start changing things too drastically. It worked well on the Richard burns and set some impressive times. We could do with doing some testing and play with some of the suspension settings to see if ther is any more grip to come from it.

[Sunbmw]

Stick with what you have got for now mate, you will always find events that dont suit the car fully. The other thing is look how long you can be away from rallying while undertaking a relatively 'simple' engine swap.
Think you need to get out and do some more miles before you start changing things too drastically. It worked well on the Richard burns and set some impressive times. We could do with doing some testing and play with some of the suspension settings to see if ther is any more grip to come from it.

Cheers Ad. Like I say, it all comes from a culmination of having a crap event, and thinking of something to do with the car a bit different.

Sorry to keep repeating meself, but as said before, I am now gonna stick with the S50, get the S/C/C/R box in and use it. If the weather is dry etc, we should have a crack at the top 10 on the RBMR this year.

I am going to treat the car to a new loom, doing it properly this time a'la Mr M3 Compact, with a nice fuse box etc.

Updates to follow.

[bruvs1]

[, we should have a crack at the top 10 on the RBMR this year
Updates to follow.

bold statement that man!! admire your optimism i think that type of venue with big straights is well suited to your type of car, are's would be wheezing like a grandad !!

[Sunbmw]

Here you go boys, anylise this.................

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tsPbLpRYHW4

Seems to me that the car was behaving itself and it was me being shandy...........

[bruvs1]

Here you go boys, anylise this.................

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tsPbLpRYHW4

Seems to me that the car was behaving itself and it was me being shandy...........

looks alright to me hard to compare to the hollands escort but you can see the weight of the cars, escort seems nimble through the corners, your car lee, seems stable, not much dive or roll though, which is not all bad but maybe its a bit hard?? wheel spin is always going to be an issue with that power, more rubber on the deck needed? i'm no expert, remember watching martin stockdales car that had similar wheelspin issues and he ended up using porsche cup tyres!!

[is-si]

Its a crystal ball job from a youtube video although it does look swift

I think some use over some bumpy / undulating roads would help you acheive a good general set-up, more so than the flat surfaces you've been on. Riding the bumps has helped us tune rates and damping no end. Lets have it right drofs were developed this way. You say you cant use it as much as you'd like to but you must try and i think you are the man for these final preparation challenges

Over-looked minor items can yield nice improvements too such as toe and camber. You've not talked about your set-up in any great detail so its hard for us to comment. Suspension will always be work-in-progress because it is a set of variables and its hard to know when you have optimised . I remember you saying that you had plenty of tyres so i'm assuming you are making good choices

[Sunbmw]

Its a crystal ball job from a youtube video although it does look swift

I think some use over some bumpy / undulating roads would help you acheive a good general set-up, more so than the flat surfaces you've been on. Riding the bumps has helped us tune rates and damping no end. Lets have it right drofs were developed this way. You say you cant use it as much as you'd like to but you must try and i think you are the man for these final preparation challenges

Over-looked minor items can yield nice improvements too such as toe and camber. You've not talked about your set-up in any great detail so its hard for us to comment. Suspension will always be work-in-progress because it is a set of variables and its hard to know when you have optimised . I remember you saying that you had plenty of tyres so i'm assuming you are making good choices

Wise words................

Set up wise, all a bit of a guess, but from experience in "the field" as it were, so 2deg neg camber on the front, 30mins toe in, spring rates were a guess too, but I canme to the figure after some discussion with Simon, and I think they are 350lb up front, but unknown at the rear, just Eibach uprated/lowered road car springs, albeit E46 ones.

The rear, 1deg neg camber, 15mins toe in, etc.

Now we come to the bit that does need some refinement, I do not have any clue as to what the damper rates are, but, all in, the car does feel very nice, Jonny mentioned it looks stiff, but it does roll quite a bit, it soaks bumps up very well (corner cutting on the AGBO does some pitching of the car) all in all, I reckon it is good, but could be improved on............if I am good enough to notice? I am a driver that seems to drive around and issues, and not get massively involved in altering stuff....even though I learnt loads about suspension set-up whilst with Mitsubishi.

So, testing required, still not ruling out S14 power but not looking very likely.

Like

[is-si]

have you done the corner weights?

[Sunbmw]

have you done the corner weights?

Good question....and No. Not got the gear at the min, asked a lad if I could borrow it previous to the RBMR, but he never bought it, then it got forgot about.

That is one thing I need to set up, and I had a quick measure of ride heights before Weston, and the Drivers rear corner was down 5mm, not sure why as I didn't get time to look.

Plenty of time to set her up proper styleee before next event, updates will be abound

[is-si]

Our experiences:
We are using 15-20mins toe-in atm, we've briefly tried 0 and it seemed worse.
We've tried a few cambers, but for the i.o.m. 1.5 was good and we are now topping out at 1.7 degrees.
As for `Attitude' we prefer the car pointing down ...a tad.
Castor is `as std m3' but theres a mystery 0.5 degree difference side to side (its 7.5-8 thro' 20degrees)

[notax]

Lee, which suspension are you using?

PS car looks good and sounds great